the built environment of a stateless society

ana007: Citizen of Nowhere | Part 2: Joe’s Immigration Ordeal

Drawing on Joe’s own immigration experiences, we dig deeper into the “Freedom of Movement” conversation and discuss green cards, spouse visas, citizenship, immigrant enclaves, sidewalk entrepreneurship, book clubs, and “Moral Turpitude.”

Part 2 of the Citizen of Nowhere Series.


Episode 007, therefore Bond parody.

Theatrical trailer for 007: Citizen of Nowhere
Voiceover: Adam Litwin – Check out his upcoming Sci-fi/Comedy feature film Soul Frackers

Theme from 007: Citizen of Nowhere
Vocal: Tim and Joe’s Dad


  • Joe’s a hypocrite
  • From Australia to the US
    • US visa
    • Two weddings for the price of two
    • I don’t know much, but I know I love Helium Karaoke
  • Green Card – A straightforward process? 00:08:41
    • I-485 Form: There are no stupid questions, only stupid bureaucrats:
      • “That was more of a movement”
      • Was it an Oprah Book Club?
      • Moral turpitude
      • Espionage
      • Communist or Fascist – Democrat or Republican?
      • Genocide – What happens in Niagara…
      • Polygamy
      • A Nazi
      • Who would say yes?
    • I-864 Form
    • The best place to get Tuberculosis
    • Fiancé visa
    • In limbo for months
    • Forced to marry
    • Guys with forms and guys with guns
    • The interview
      • Government buildings assume everyone coming in the door is a potential threat – just like at the border.
      • Prove your love – we had TWO weddings!
      • Muriel’s Wedding
      • Commingled finances
    • Six months and $1,800 for a green card
    • Received, only to relinquish
  • Back to Australia
    • Tip your movers
    • All those summers of back breaking labor finally paid off
    • Bzzzz…POP!
    • Bike and skis – the sunk cost fallacy in action
    • The miracle of logistics companies
    • Customs declaration
    • Perfect timing
  • Joe’s Australian spouse visa 00:36:50
    • Australia – everything’s a little more bureaucratic
    • Documenting six years of Joe’s international travel
    • Original birth certificate?
    • Paperless visas cause confusion – Visa Entitlement Verification Online (VEVO)
  • Joe’s kids’ dual citizenship
    • “They were born Australians, but they were made Americans”
    • Wait a few months for your appointment to wait some more
    • Traveling to Melbourne to do paperwork
    • Thwarted by Tiger Woods
    • Incidental costs of passport / visa / citizenship processes
    • Nameless public servants
    • Batching applications
  • Joe’s Australian citizenship 00:50:30
    • A bonus for podcast listeners!
    • Why become a Australian citizen?
      • A leg up in the job market
      • Easier to start a business
      • Foreign Investment Relations Board (FIRB)
      • Fearing nationalist revolution
      • Fearing nationalist bigotry
      • An American Spy?
    • Doing the paperwork – again
    • Finding a “referee”
    • HAZOP interruption
    • The interview – again
    • The test – arbitrary trivia
    • In government approval processes, the actual proof of knowledge and character is minimal. The bureaucracy of the process itself is what weeds people out.
    • The citizenship ceremony
    • Pledging allegiance
  • Benefits of citizenship
    • The right to be forced to vote
    • Voting silliness
    • The right to be forced to be on jury duty
    • More voting silliness
    • Auction your vote on ebay?
    • The right to be forced to join the military
    • That’s about it
    • Dual citizenship
    • Australians think Joe is Canadian
  • Tax Implications 01:13:07
    • Only two countries collect tax on foreign income of non-resident citizens. USA and Eritrea – an elite group
    • What taxes has Joe signed his kids up for?
    • US Citizens have to file tax returns for TEN YEARS after renouncing citizenship.
    • FinCEN form 116: FBAR – Foreign Bank Account Reporting, or “Fourth Bloody Amendment Repealed”
      • US Citizens have to report any foreign account valued over $10,000
      • Penalty for not submitting the form is the greater of $10,000 or HALF of the unreported assets. So much for unlawful seizure.
      • How many terrorists fill out their FBAR forms?
    • FATCA – Milking the offshore fat cats, and everyone else
    • Tax evasion vs. tax avoidance
      • The Panama Papers – Hypocrisy of politicians
      • Tax havens – created by onerous tax laws
  • Unintended consequences of immigration controls 01:32:11

    • Are illegal immigrants renegade libertarian heroes?
    • Anchor babies
    • Prohibition of immigration forces immigrants to live outside the system
    • Same-sex couples could be forced apart
    • Stateless people – real Citizens of Nowhere
      • Everywhere they go is ruled by a State – that’s the problem
    • Prohibition of immigration creates dangerous industry of human trafficking.
    • Eliminating prohibition of high demand goods and services eliminates profit centers for criminal organizations.
  • Nauru: Australia’s “Pacific Solution”
    • Now Australia has its own prison island!
    • Indefinite detention
    • If you’re paying to support people anyways, why not let them in so they can work?
  • Socialism + Open Borders => Ultra-Nationalism
    • Ultra right-wing groups are exclusionary National Socialists
    • Left-wing groups are inclusionary International Socialists
    • Nazis were Socialists too!
    • International socialists are deluded in thinking that socialism is sustainable
    • National socialists are deluded in thinking they can save it
  • Effects of mass immigration on the built environment 01:58:53
    • Immigrant enclaves facilitate integration.
    • Integration vs. assimilation
    • Immigrant enclaves create support networks for new immigrants.
    • Cultural conflicts can be better mitigated in an anarchic society than in a state
  • Sidewalk entrepreneurship
    • Coconuts, granola, motoconchos, and Kung Fu Panda 3
  • The importance of public space
    • Homesteading public use of space in an anarchic society
    • Community gathering spaces
    • Co-housing
    • Businesses within the home
  • How immigrants can thrive
    • Many of the things people do to get by in poorer countries are prohibited by zoning, building codes, licensing, and other restrictions in western countries.
    • Main Streets created by commercial additions to residential buildings
    • This isn’t trickle down economics – it’s “Build up”
  • How governments prevent immigrants from thriving
    • Immigration controls
    • Zoning prohibits certain uses
    • Zoning creates sprawl and reduces pedestrian traffic for small business
    • Building codes restrict uses within buildings
    • Restrictions on boarding houses
    • Granny flats / in-law apartments
    • Occupational licensure prevents immigrants from doing skilled work
  • Bigotry, Xenophobia, and Racism
    • The market puts a cost on discriminatory practices
    • Supporting a “right” to not be forced to associate or disassociate with anyone else does not equal support of racist beliefs.
    • “So there, we just solved racism!”
  • Next episode: A borderless world is a stateless world. What does this look like, and how do we get there?


The “Vesper” martini:

The Bond Martini

“A dry martini,” [Bond] said. “One. In a deep champagne goblet.”
“Oui, monsieur.”
“Just a moment. Three measures of Gordon’s, one of vodka, half a measure of Kina Lillet. Shake it very well until it’s ice-cold, then add a large thin slice of lemon peel. Got it?”

“Excellent … but if you can get a vodka made with grain instead of potatoes, you will find it still better. Mais n’enculons pas des mouches”
From “Casino Royale” by Ian Fleming

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  1. Fantastic vocals and music as always, guys!
    This quote struck me:
    “However, there are real bigots out there. Now hopefully, in today’s world they don’t have a lot of influence or power to affect things throughout society.” Tough timing on this statement. I suppose we have democracy to blame for this?
    I appreciated the question and answer dialogue in helping to explain certain ideas.
    Looking forward to hearing episode 008.

    • Joe

      2016-11-10 at 7:35 am

      Thanks for the comment, Nate. I had some concerns about that line but I think the “bigotry vote” is overstated. I just posted the following on my personal Facebook page, but it’s relevant here. We will get into racism and multiculturalism in more depth in the next episode.

      My fb post:

      I have a creeping suspicion that white supremacists weren’t actually the swing vote this time around.

      That sort of thing hasn’t happened since the 1920’s when the KKK were mostly Democrats, supported progressive positions like abortion and anti-catholicism, and there were more than 6,000 of them nationwide (current estimate by SPLC).

      It’s easy to blame bigotry for all the world’s problems, because identifying bigotry is just about the only critical thinking skill that is actually taught in schools. It’s a real problem, but it is far from being the root cause of every problem.

      When your only tool is a hammer, every problem looks like a nail. When your only critical thinking skill is to shout “RACIST!” every intellectual challenge looks like racism.

      Imagine if all logical fallacies were understood, recognized and challenged with the same fervor as bigotry is today. Someone might actually call me out as a “SOPHIST!” for my snarky “tu quoque” in the first paragraph.

      Snarks aside, Jeff Tucker has been one of the most outspoken libertarians opposing Trump and the alt-right. TJ Brown (aka That Guy T) has written about the many absurdities of the SJW movement.

      If you think that individualism means being selfish at the expense of others, you need to read more of both authors, and just about everything else at FEE.

      Rise above identity politics, and politics in general. Overcome your bigotry towards “CRAZY” libertarianism.

      Ok, I think that’s another “tu quoque.” Crap.

  2. Enjoyed the conversation.

    You lost me with your thoughts on immigration.

    I’m more of the stance of Stefan Molyneux. We live in a statist society for the foreseeable future and immigration (or statist forced association) has a big impact on a country. Not only do third-world immigrants make higher use of the welfare system but they also do so 3 generations later. They also tend to vote for more government- even 3 generations in. How about the state-funded dysgenic policies incentivizing foreign welfare recipients to produce babies whilst hammering the productive to pay for it? Diversity might improve the restaurant and music selection, but it reduces general trust (a key to the economy) and charitable donations. See Molyneux videos for studies and numbers (including birthrates, IQ and crime stats) on the topic.

    • Joe

      2016-12-22 at 5:45 pm

      Immigration is certainly a tricky issue for Libertarians. I have been paying attention to Molyneux recently but I think a lot of his arguments are “slippery slope” in nature and assume too much about the importance of particular evolutionary tendencies (eg IQ, r/K selection) while ignoring some observable real world effects.

      These include:
      1. Multicultural societies tend to be less supportive of state welfare systems

      2. Immigrants from socially conservative cultures often support more socially liberal views after immigrating, eg many western Muslims are ok with same sex marriage.

      Please read some of our links from Cato and others for these and more.

      To what extent are libertarians willing to grant more power to the state in hopes that one day that power will be relinquished?

      We will challenge Hoppe’s position in the next episode, along the lines of this Walter Block paper (which I just discovered yesterday).

      In general, multiculturalism is desirable until a “one size fits all” state enforces conformity and supplants the natural desires of people in various cultures to help each other. Democracy turns this into a “winner takes all” numbers game. This perhaps Molyneux’s primary concern.

      Libertarians should be opposed not to multiculturalism, but to the means of state violence in all its forms. Maybe this is too idealistic, but Molyneux’s consequentialist “real world” arguments also ignore some of the more optimistic reality evidenced in the research by Cato and others.

      It’s a complex issue and even after spending almost an entire year producing this series I feel like there is so much more to consider and discuss!

      • “while ignoring some observable real world effects”

        Molyneux talks to researchers in the relevant fields and tends to back up his presentations with data/articles. If you have a strong case, I suggest calling into his show. This might also get the word out on your podcast 😉

        ” Multicultural societies tend to be less supportive of state welfare systems”

        I am aware of studies that show that Multicultural societies tend to give less to charity. Since most recent immigrants are supported by welfare, I find that surprising. Do you have an example? Can you point me to one which backs up your point?

        “Immigrants from socially conservative cultures often support more socially liberal views after immigrating, eg many western Muslims are ok with same sex marriage.”

        That’s just not reflected in the data. “None of the 500 British Muslims interviewed believed that homosexual acts were morally acceptable.”

        Half of British Muslims want homosexuality banned:

        “To what extent are libertarians willing to grant more power to the state in hopes that one day that power will be relinquished?”

        I know for sure that going from 0% to 60% Muslims in a nation will not result in more freedom overall. If you think otherwise, please point me to a Muslim country with more freedoms than a Western democracy?

        The Walter Block paper does not consider the effects on incentives of an open border on the Third world. If all nations could travel to Germany and take up welfare there, then Germany would be bankrupt tomorrow (as opposed to 5 to 10 years from now…). Out of the 1.2 million recent Muslim immigrants in Germany only 2.8% have jobs – most of which are government jobs. Is that sustainable? You cannot have welfare *and* open borders.

        Your house has borders. You don’t let anyone come sit at your table and eat your food. Ancap societies would have borders (everywhere) too.

        “Democracy turns this into a “winner takes all” numbers game. This perhaps Molyneux’s primary concern.!”

        Of course. But we aren’t getting rid of Democracy just yet. However, immigration is something that can be throttled in the current statist system. That’s the only lever we have.

        Imagine the hypothetical case where Aboriginals were immigrating en-masse to Australia. Would you still maintain your position that they would be against welfare? That prosperity and social cohesion would increase? Aboriginals have the lowest recorded demographic IQ bordering on mental retardation by most classifications. If you make a special case for aboriginals, then it is my contention that the rest of your argument falls apart.

  3. Joe

    2016-12-22 at 5:48 pm

    BTW if you like Dunkin Donuts, you’ll appreciate this blog post I wrote a while ago:

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